Infotainment Systems and iPhones- A Rant

"404usernotfound" (404usernotfound)
08/20/2014 at 12:42 • Filed to: Rant, infotainment

Car radio systems used to be simple. AM radio, one or two speakers, a dial and a few knobs. Fast forward to the 80's and things start getting a little more complicated. You have digital displays, FM radio, 8 tracks, Cassettes and more speakers. Go forward another 10-15 years to the 90's and things get even more complicated. CDs, Digital processing, and Surround sound come in. You get to the 2000's and in comes big screens with GPS navigation, you have aux inputs and big amps. Having the A/C and car systems start being connected in to and controlled through the same screen becomes common. Things are starting to get way complicated.

Fast forward all the way to today, Phones are starting to provide major services, and universal aux jacks are starting to disappear, being replaced with proprietary connections.

Technology is being developed to have your whole infotainment system be your phone, just mirrored on the cars screen. This is an Enormous step forward and allows more intuitive and natural controls, something cars have really been missing. The public has been screaming for this for years.

All this technology though, has one big problem.

It is completely proprietary.

A lot of the new systems that are coming out now only work with either the iPhone or Android. This means most new cars are alienating nearly half of the population. Currently over 52% of people own Androids, with iOS being around 40%. Cars aren't only using phones for music and entertainment; they are becoming essential parts of the system, proving data connections and other services. Some new systems, as mentioned above, completely rely on a phone for the entire infotainment system. This means that in a few years, when you get your new phone, your cars entire infotainment system will have completely changed, or not be compatible at all.

Planned Obsolescence is slowly coming to cars and is even worse than you might think. Take Apples recent switch to the Lighting connector as an example. With this change, every car with a 30 pin connector became obsolete. Even with an adapter, most of these systems do not work properly with the new phones. Many months later, you could still buy a car with the old adapter. (Even Bentley took months to update) Technology in cars just can't keep up with technology. The product cycles of cars can be 5 or 6 times longer than that of a phone, leaving even new cars in the dust. For some people, this might not matter, because they update their cars almost as often as they update their phones, but for most people this may become a big issue.

The way that cars currently use phones does not take the future into account, and will require many slow and probably late updates down the line, and eventually they will stop being updated and go down the hole of obsolescence. This will create a generation of used cars with nearly useless infotainment systems. I may be exagerating a bit, but it is something that has never really been the case before. Even cars with cassette decks are still useful because of cassette adapters, and cars with aux jacks, and even USBs will always have a way to play music.

Don't get me wrong, I love technology and want cars to continue to get better, I mean, I myself am a computer science major. This might not be the most popular opinon, and you may have never even thought about it, but it is something that needs to be adressed.

All I am asking is that car companies start designing systems that will still function in ten years, when technology has moved past anything we can even imagine today. If they could do it ten years ago, why couldn't they still do it now?

DISCUSSION (100)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 12:53

First gen Mustang dash - nice. I'd say the "include everything!" crowd would be smarter keeping everything at least a little restrained. On the topic of old dashes, I like the Autosound re-fits for 60s and other cars because they're still USB, analog aux, and AM/FM without going too far over the top.

StevenG > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:00

This is hilarious. You mention the iPhone in the headline then bitch car infotainment is proprietary? Does doublethink of that level hurt?

You even seem to notice it with their connector swap. Unbelieveable.

GasMoney > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:01

What's with the advertisements in every other word? I've noticed this elsewhere too.

For Sweden > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:03

Bluetooth: already a standard, and the hardware that goes obsolete comes in a much cheaper phone-like wrapper.

Mailbox Cancer > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:04

I maintain: the greatest luxury to include in any vehicle is to spec only TWO things as a car's total infotainment system aside from under-the-dash amplifier and provided speakers: a power socket and an AUX jack.

Bring your own system, buddy; this car has more than 20 years of true adaptability, no matter what's next.

boobytrapsandtreasure > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:05

404, damn straight. Well said. Amen.

Someone Else's Projects > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:05

"If they could do it ten years ago, why couldn't they still do it now?"

Because they had fewer functions and did them themselves without outsourcing them to a phone? C'mon, this kind of question really doesn't work in a technology context.

davidj211 > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:06

SUPER FRUSTRATING that my car's stereo works with iOS and Android, but not Windows Phone. Where's the support for the third party candidate of the smartphone world?

StevenG > For Sweden
08/20/2014 at 13:07

Bluetooth is fine for audio, but to slow for anything else.

What we really need is display mirroring.

StevenG > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 13:09

a 12v plug makes that 110v kinda pointless. They make nice 12v to usb adaptors that even fit flush. The aux jack is nice, but a wireless version there of is more convenient.

Vin > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:09

"Planned Obsolescence is slowly coming to cars and is even worse than you might think. "

Planned obsolescence is intimately connected with car production. The strategy was developed by Ford or GM, I don't remember which.

That said, proprietary infotainment is really, really annoying. Just offer a giant touchscreen and a method for connecting your smartphone, and develop the requisite app for every platform. Easy-peasy lemon squeezy.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:09

I agree with most of your comments, save a few.

Cassette decks are a horrible, expensive, finicky, and bad-quality analog way of handling things, and needless. An analog 1/8th inch headphone jack is much more direct for aux-in, and very standardized.

USB is also pretty much tech industry standard, and can be as versatile as the car's built-in head unit can handle... including a USB to active Lightning cable, instead of a hard-wired cable end. Software updates are all that are required.

Frankly, I think the industry needs to go to a standardized intel processor, or A7/A8 64-bit mobile processor architecture, that can host an operating system, basically like a mobile device computer in a car.

Better yet if it is a box module behind the glovebox liner that can be removed and replaced for service, or upgrade, even if the touch-screen is built into the dash.

Cars already have multiple ECUs for the drivetrain, a BCU for body systems like lighting, doors, windows, locks, and other non-drivetrain operations... the Infotainment unit should be another box, preferably upgradeable, and perhaps even user-serviceable and installable.

A base line unit could just be a simple radio tuner, and source switcher, and perhaps a cell phone hands-free unit. All cars will soon be required to have rearview cameras, so it is similarly a matter of time before every car has an LCD screen display. Touch sensitive or not.

However, it could go as far as a mobile computer CPU, loaded with a version of Android, mobile-optimized linux, Windows mobile, or Apple's CarPlay variant of iOS... Dealers can offer their preference of pre-installed customized operating system, but a IT-savvy user or third party vendor could re-load and modify the infotainment operating system, based on IT tech industry standards, such as USB input.

It could be built similar to other mobile device hardware platforms, plus an HD radio tuner chip, satellite radio tuner chip, a GPS module, LTE connectivity module, or bluetooth, ad-hoc WiFi, or USB-wired tether to a cellphone's LTE bridged connection, and a video input (rearview, surround, or dash cam inputs), and video output to the main dash screen, and aux passenger screens if equipped... and an input interface for dash and steering input controls, a bluetooth keyboard, or co-opted keyboard interface app from a phone or tablet device.

These cars are so computerized... they should just accept the fact, and build a standardized mobile computer into the system. Standard interfaces and an accessible, serviceable CPU unit would make automotive IT a real possibility, instead of a proprietary mess. And if car makers don't have the chops to be tech companies, they could let tech companies operate as a third party for car owners, to be as stone simple, or as sophisticated as the customer wants, and industry-standardized with the rest of the tech industry.

404usernotfound > For Sweden
08/20/2014 at 13:10

I meant to say something about bluetooth, but Kinja ate half of my first draft, and I totaly forgot to put it back in.

post_break > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:10

My toyota has an infotainment system that works on both Android and iOS over bluetooth.

R W > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:11

bluetooth.

jimz > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:11

really the only way to do this is to stick with the standardized interfaces they're using today. USB and Bluetooth. USB will basically be around forever in some form, and Bluetooth is already pretty flexible.

emiliorescigno > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:11

Yup, I've been saying/thinking this for years. How many car phones in used cars from the 80s and 90s still work? None. The network they run on has been shut off for years now. The Tesla Model S has integrated 3G...how much longer will 3G be in service? Even if it is in service, how long will it take to download larger and more complex updates? How long will Tesla bother developing updates?

This problem is compounded by the fact that automakers no longer use standardized mounting systems for radios. Pretty much any car from the late 80s and early 90s uses a DIN or double DIN sized radio, and aftermarket units with all these newfangled features can be easily installed (and changed every couple of years with your phone!)

This is one of so many reasons I really hate the automotive future that's coming. I love simplicity, (I'm sure as a fellow computer science major, you'd share my sentiment) and cars are getting increasingly proprietary and increasingly complex. Ugh.

I also hate drive by wire. Totally unrelated, but fuck that noise.

T off the New > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:12

My car has the best infotainment system when the radios off

DeeJayQueue > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:13

Several cars in the 90s-2000s had integrated handsfree speaker systems that relied on a specific phone (ostensibly the Motorola StarTac) to function. They even had custom molded hideaway trays in the center console. Today, they're useless and vestigial remnants of technology from the past.

What I'm saying is that this isn't a new problem. It's at least 15 years old, if not more. That says to me that manufacturers don't really care about the used car market. What it also says is that there may be a space for a savvy entrepreneur to figure out how to either adapt old infotainment systems for new tech, or replace them with new stuff.

It could breathe new life in to companies like Clarion, Alpine, Pioneer, Kenwood, Blaupunkt, who all seem to be languishing due to these new integrated car audio systems.

Mailbox Cancer > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 13:14

You can have your 12v jack. Wireless tech (bluetooth, etc.), however, constantly changes. A simple hardwired aux jack survives the clusterfuck that is version updates, proprietary connections, and hardware compatibility issues.

StevenG > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/20/2014 at 13:14

Why intel? This sounds like some sort of wintel brain damaged thinking.

Simply display mirror the mobile device, and provide a place to set the phone that provide qi charging.

tsmit > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:14

ha ha, my radio has an aux jack, a cd player and a radio, thats it, nothing else, nothing else really ever needed :D

doodypie > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:14

Bluetooth is the new universal aux in. Any physical connector other than an 1/8" jack is doomed to obsolescence anyway, and Bluetooth A2DP has become the new defacto standard. I'm OK with that.

felixpotvin > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:15

Also annoying:

Why is navigation a $3000 option on a car that can wirelessly talk to my cell phone? My cell phone has a GPS chip and a data connection.

A Tom Tom costs like $300.

I like the idea of navigation (bought it for my wife's car) but I've never been $3000 lost.

phrancis5 > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:15

Unfortunately for Android users like myself, Android integration and programming always takes a back seat to iPhones/iOS simply because there are fewer different types of iPhones and versions of iOS to contend with. Therefore it's just easier and faster to design for a known standard. The variety of choices in the Android side is great for consumers, but that fragmentation is unfortunately much harder developers to design for.

Captain_Spadaro > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:16

Heh, I've got a Windows Phone. No one cares about us.

StevenG > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 13:16

USB has not changed in a long time. Neither bluetooth.

These are standards that likely predate your current car, and will be in use after you die.

Humpty-D > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:16

They will still function without a phone connected, just without nav and all that wizardry. Manufacturers are not going to be eliminating the ability to tap into FM/AM radio, plus the CD player isn't going away anytime soon. It should also be noted that this will be an optional tech upgrade on consumer cars, if they even have it at all. Nobody is being forced to upgrade to the latest iPhone/Android.... except Ferrari drivers, who probably have it anyways.

DonKeybals > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:17

cars should all be fitted with AM/FM/SAT and a HDD. That's it. No jacks, no aux, and USB should only be available as a charging port. Include BT music stream. All other media should be tossed. Jesus, we are in 2014, and I can't believe they still install CD players in new cars. CD should be available as an option. A very expensive option.

James May is my spirit animal > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:17

I'm a luddite.

The only music I listen to is the roar of my engine, the squeal of my power steering pump, and the few squelches of my tires.

TheB1ackAdderr > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:19

oldmanyellsatclouds.png

dustin_driver > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:21

The radio is lousy with commercials that make me want to blow my brains out. I cannot abide the radio. Unless it's NPR.

Yossarian > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:22

You're misinformed. There currently is no car audio system on the market that limits you to Android or iPhone. Apple Carplay or Android Auto will not be limiting you in phone choice either. They are simply an interface that pops up if you have either of them to make the phones easier to navigate. The normal car interface still works. Also cars still have AUX ports and USB ports. The only exception to that is VW which requires you to purchase a pigtail connection to get the AUX port or other connection, but they've been doing that forever.

Keith Moon > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:23

My FR-S circumvents this whole problem by placing a $20 CD player masquerading as an "infotainment system" lol. Not that I care :D

McMike > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:23

I had a HU for 20 years that was AM/FM/Cassette with a remote 10 CD changer. (two amps and some big ass speakers, too - but that's not what this is about)

It was perfect. Simple, easy to browse through your 10 disks you loaded for the month/week/day (depending on your attention span) When you got bored of your 10, you swapped them out. When you bought new music, you swapped one out and enjoyed it until you got bored of it. Swap out, and repeat.

Last winter, I finally ripped all my CDs into my computer, and wanted to celebrate. How did I celebrate? I bought a new head unit. Holy shit, a new head unit. After 20 years, I have a new head unit.

Let me tell you what the head unit does.

Single CD

Rear USB

Front USB

Aux-in

AM/FM

Bluetooth streaming

SD card reader.

It's too much.

I thought having OMGALLMYMUSIC living on a glove box iPod would be great. Just dial up some Judas Priest, then scroll over to something else. Listen to my favorite Police playlist, then have a little Moog Cookbook marathon.

Nope. I can't read the display from the driver's seat because of the angle. Even if I could, trying to scroll through all the << << MUSIC (enter) >> >> ALBUM > ARTIST > > > > > (sorted alphabetical) would keep my eyes off the road too long. I just end up putting it on random and hitting next, next, next until I find something I like.

It's a pain in the ass. I'm not a DJ, hoping to play something someone likes.. It's my car, I know what I like, and can load the CD changer accordingly.

becky_lcy7g > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:26

last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My neighbour's sister has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out.

This is what I do,,,,,,,,,,

wwwDoesjobs

NeonBlaqk > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:27

Note on the 80's part, some cars could also be optioned with a CB radio, as was apparently the fashion of the day. Whether or not my 80's-mobile ever came with that is one of the great mysteries of the car as it long ago lost it's factory radio. When it came into my hands, the radio already featured an aux jack, which is truly just one of those can't-live-without features. My daily driver also features aux, but it lives in the glove compartment, a fact that only stopped being annoying when I had Sirius put in. I had the mount put into the glove box seeing as how I really only ever listen to one station and the connection would leave the dash uncluttered with a bit of extra money leftover in my pocket. Before Sirius, there was always a cable dangling out to attach to my phone.

Mailbox Cancer > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 13:28

Uh. Remember the jump from USB 1.0 to 2.0? 2.0 to 3.0? I sure do. It wasn't THAT long ago. Oh, and they're about to start rolling a new standard. Also remember Firewire 400, the standard-bearer of powering devices and transmitting data? When was the last time you used that? Something tells me that USB will be long gone by the time I leave the earth.

Also, Bluetooth has been updated to v4.1 as of Dec. 2013, less than a year ago. And people report compatibility issues with it to this day with slightly older devices. Come on, now.

Giving people the ability to easily allow their car to adapt to their own standard just makes sense, via the miracle of a simplified and fool-proof (read: hardwired) connection protocol. Bring your own toys, and even have a way to connect wireless systems to the car that doesn't look jerryrigged together. It's the perfect solution.

ndukyh > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:28

I mostly agree with your post. I would rather manufacturers act like BMW and actaully strive to create their own infotainment systems that work really well and will continue to work regardless of what mobile OS you have in the future. But unfortunately the crap infotainment systems that most of these guys are putting out will probably never be great. The one saving grace is that so far manufacturers don't seem to be replacing their infotainment systems with these systems (CarPlay, Google whatever it's called) but instead adding them as supplements. So if you don't have that particular mobile OS you can still revert to the car's normal system. It's just a positive if you do have it.

Meatcoma > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:28

There weren't many if at all any 8 track players in any production model car that was built in the 80's, my '78 came with a cassette deck.

deekster_caddy > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:29

Sheesh, and I was happy that the new car I bought in 2013 finally had an aux input jack!

StevenG > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 13:30

You mean those standards that are all backwards compatible?

USB in one form or another will be around a very long time.

Hardwired is not foolproof. Lots of hardwired connection protocols are changed and not useful to more than one companies devices.

There are lots of ways to do this in a car, without wires. It would require open standards, and better yet FOSS ones, but that will never happen.

Sean > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:30

I noticed in a Chinese car (I think Landwind / Evoque ripoff) that the infotainment screen rendered a QR code for each cell phone operation system (one of iOS, one for android etc). I assume it steered you to download an App that synced your phone to the car correctly.

I thought this was really clever and made much more sense than some of current solutions that are probably not going to compatible with iOS 9....

A solution like this would mean that the car manufacturer would only have to keep the middle-ware current.

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/08/cant-a…

JEM > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 13:31

An aux jack is great, but I think the USB port is much more important, and will probably still be around for a long time.

I've never used bluetooth (no need for it) but that seems like a pretty solid one, though you could always plug a bluetooth adapter into a USB port I suppose, so again, at least USB.

JEM > McMike
08/20/2014 at 13:34

See, I would never want all of my music with me. I have probably about 9gb which is just a small fraction on a USB drive, and it's just on random the entire time.

TheBobmanNH > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:35

Not clear on Apple's CarPlay, but I know Android's version is not a closed system, and apps will be available to use it on iOS (and presumably WP), according to the press release thing they did.

Damon Lavrinc > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:39

Automakers are starting to invest heavily in modular systems that can be upgraded over time. Add in software updates that can either be performed by the dealer, at home, or over the air, and a lot of these issues will be solved. The proprietary nature is definitely a problem, but never underestimate motivated owners and the aftermarket to come up with solutions.

PS9 > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:40

It is completely proprietary.

No, it's not. It is true that competing companies create proprietary technology to wall out competitors, but this does not mean that your Microsoft Sync infotainment system will not work at all with your iPhone. The reality is the exact opposite . Compatibility between competing devices is necessary for the sharing of files and other types of information, and that's not going to go away just because said devices happen to be attached to a car.

First Micro-USB, then 30 pin, then lightning, then who-knows-what-else-is-next. Apple's constant changing of connectors would be a serious problem if they weren't all USB compatible. But they are. So it's not. Apple devices have to be able to sync and share data with non-apple devices, and that need will persist no matter how many connectors Apple cycles through.

3.5mm jacks are in fact going away. Not because infotainment system makers are trying to force everyone into one ecosystem or another, but because they are obsolete. Bluetooth is better. The 3.5mm jack was the only way we had of sharing data (audio specifically) between a portable music device and a built-in radio. But now, smartphones come with more storage spaces that home PCs did 20 years ago, and bluetooth will let you play music and beyond. The jack is going away because it's not good enough anymore.

CarPlay by Apple is definitely not compatible with non-apple devices. So if you want to use your android or whatever else it is you have for GPS or something, well I guess you're fucked now... oh wait, no you're not.

Have you forgotten that these devices are intelligent and can run software? Win8/RT/Phone, Linux, OS X, iOS, Android, and even your ancient blackberry can all instantly grab, modify, and save to the same file in real time thanks to industry wide communication standards (that aren't going anywhere) and software that sates the need to provide a compatible bridge of communication between proprietary devices. If the need exists for more infotainment system compatibility, software will appear to bridge the gap.

Technology moves fast, but not fast enough for everything to be completely different in ten measily years, and I can imagine a lot. Like for example, a system that dissolves the rest of the cars interior and presents the driver with 100% visibility. Think that's 10 years away? I don't think that's even 100 years away.

Mailbox Cancer > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 13:42

Yup. I'm talking about those. Why do I still have an issue with them? Because people still have problems. When was the last time you remember someone not being able to plug an AUX cable into a receiver? Honestly?

Hardwired is as foolproof as it gets. And I'm not talking about a manufacturers' proprietary hardwire standards. I'm talking about allowing people to (1) power any device, and (2) connect any said device into a speaker system. That takes an open power source (such as a 110v-style 2-prong plug, or at least a cigarette lighter receiver) and an 1/8" stereo jack, which is widely and openly utilized across virtually any manufacturer. No? Really, that's a "NO?"

However, NONE OF THIS is to outright knock the possibility of having a wireless system placed in the vehicle, or doing this all through wireless protocols exclusively. Between chargemat tech and bluetooth, it would be all you need to prop one's phone or tablet on a dash and use that exclusively as the in-car system for everything/anything. I'm 100% behind that. But what happens when those functions pose problems for some users? Some customers? Do they at least have the capability to hardwire into the car, for both audio and power?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:43

Not really sure what you're asking for...bluetooth works for any device, failing that you have the aux jack. Failing that, usually there's a USB port that can be used for iOS integration or to at least plug in your Android phone.

I don't really see what the problem is.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:45

I just want a simple analog AM/FM receiver with an aux jack and 8-10 band EQ. That isn't too much to ask, is it? I don't need my car to try to be my phone. It sucks at it. No one can understand a word that I'm saying through the microphone build into the roof, and it doesn't understand what I'm telling it to do, even if it's as simple as "stop talking."

TrauMorgus > post_break
08/20/2014 at 13:46

So does my Chevy. In fact, I'm unaware of any system that actually limits which phone you use. That would be pointless and stupid.

Now, do some of them offer more features when paired with specific phones? Probably. But that's not at all the same thing.

StevenG > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 13:52

A couple days ago? Seriously some people cannot handle plugging anything in. Not kidding, this dude is an idiot. He also could not understand how it would sound better with a lower volume on his phone and using the car volume controls to increase the volume.

Obviously adding this stuff does not mean removing the stereo jack.

Mailbox Cancer > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 13:54

Would he have had an easier time trying to pair his phone to bluetooth?

I suppose one can't design around stupidity with a 100% success rate.

472CID > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:55

Aux jack and an FM radio and I'm a perfectly happy camper. Of course I was still using primarily cassette tapes well into the 00s

StevenG > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 13:56

Yeah, he uses bluetooth headphones at his desk. I bet someone helped him set those up though.

MetaKnight2k > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:58

Apple's Dock connector, that you bring up, has been continuously supported by Apple for ovesr 10 years. The 2003 iPod up until the 2011 iPhone 4S still on sale today in 2014. If the Lightning connector lives so long then your dream is alive, if you deign to buy an iPhone.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 13:59

My car seems pretty standard and non-proprietary, I can listen to USB sticks, I have an AUX IN or I can connect via bluetooth (my preferred method).

Daniel Fleck > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 14:02

Bluetooth and USB have always been backward compatible with previous generations. USB 1.0 ports will still charge and transfer data with modern devices, just at slower rates.

The real solution is to make infotainment systems modular and standard like PC parts so that they can be easily swapped out and replaced when technology has improved without affecting the car's other systems. Like say a DIN or double DIN slot...

Daniel Fleck > Yossarian
08/20/2014 at 14:05

No, but it does limit the capabilities. My Ford read text messages from my blackberry. It doesn't with the iPhone. Some phones are more compatible than others.

SZRimaging > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 14:13

Umm.....you might want to go fact check yourself.

Bluetooth is somewhere in version 4, which, while backwards compatible to 2, is not, I believe, compatible back to 1.

Also, USB is looking at, and I may have the version number wrong, 3.1 which will introduce a new, double-sided plug. So yeah, USB is not constant, nor should it be.

they-will-know-my-velocity > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 14:17

Its actually hard to find simple radios anymore. Looking at buying a Blaupunkt (sp?) double din now because its closest to stock I can find while still offering Bluetooth. I don't want my stereo to swirlbcolors,

Mailbox Cancer > Daniel Fleck
08/20/2014 at 14:17

I've even had trouble with modern devices even accepting a charge and date transfer connection with older USB receivers. "Your device is not compatible with this connection," I believe the prompt reads. Frustrating.

I actually like your hardware-swap suggestion a lot. As long as it's easily accessible by the customer without creating a new trend for car thieves who no longer have head units to yank, this would be so, so optimal.

burntup123 > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 14:26

In terms of smartphone components, aux jacks are fucking huge and are quickly becoming obsolete. Apple will probably be first, but everyone else will jump on the bandwagon before you know it and aux jacks will be like tape decks. Still useful, but rarely used.

Brian, The Life of > PS9
08/20/2014 at 14:29

I have the old, relatively simple MS Sync (non-touch) system in my 2010 Fusion. I guess I've been lucky because it has worked flawlessly with the four generations of iPhone I've had since I bought the car (3S, 4S, 5 & 5S).

Krautastic > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 14:29

Agreed. If I can only add to your rant. Bluetooth connectivity. I set up bluetooth in my rental car once so that I could use calling features, but instead, everytime I get in the car it plays the audio off my phone. My like 3 or 4 custom ring tones/notification sounds... the only mp3's on the device. Little blips and bloops that are quite harmless out of a phone speaker but when I just got done rocking out to some Deltron 3030 when I parked the car, the audio change when I next start up the car, these blips and bloops screaming out my car speakers is unnerving to say the least. I know I'm in the 1% of people who doesn't have music on their phone, but some people, some people have a phone so they can make phone calls. Not as media player.

burntup123 > PS9
08/20/2014 at 14:31

Would just like to point out the fallacy of Apple "constantly" changing connectors. They used the 30 pin for a decade, and Lightning will be we us for a while.

StevenG > SZRimaging
08/20/2014 at 14:34

Yeah, those are all backwards compatible.

Just-a-guy > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 14:35

I load my music onto a USB which plugs into the center console. Until USB sticks are a thing of the past, this will work for quite some time.

No idea why people can't just stream via bluetooth.

MetaKnight2k > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 14:44

That's exactly what the iPhone does though; it treats the in dash display as video output and the speakers as audio output and the mic as audio input.

The only issue is that the USB port, not an AUX jack, is how you connect the iPhone to a CarPlay stereo.

MetaKnight2k > Vin
08/20/2014 at 14:46

That is exactly what CarPlay is though. Apps on the phone, USB to plug into the touchscreen/mic/speaker system, and that's it.

fun4turbo > JEM
08/20/2014 at 14:47

Yeah when I used my old video ipod I had about 7gb of music....so thousands and thousands of songs. I'd hook it up in my car, throw it on shuffle-but know what it played? All the songs I either didn't like that much, or was sick of. I spent more time hitting the skip button than anything else.

Now I have a couple segmented spotify playlists on my iphone, and also use Slacker/Pandora. Much better.

homebrewED > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 14:52

Didn't realize USB/micro USB is proprietary. Isn't it just the IEEE standard for data transfer / power?

fun4turbo > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 14:53

edit

Haze > PS9
08/20/2014 at 14:53

The only way I could get an android device to even charge in my Cadillac was to have the power port converted into an actual cigar lighter so the network would stop rejecting the device.

OcelotRex > PS9
08/20/2014 at 14:59

Bluetooth is better

I disagree. Considering the best bluetooth codec out there for streaming is he aptX codec, which is described as "near CD quality," an aux input can deliver superior audio quality. If your infotainment system does not include that codec then you're getting even worse quality.

The real downside is the draw on the battery from the bluetooth streaming over using the cable input. Bluetooth draws more power for less quality today , that can change though.

Vin > MetaKnight2k
08/20/2014 at 15:00

Nah, that's still dependent on having an iPhone. I'm talking about the manufacturer offering everything BUT the smartphone: the screen, the connector, and the app (in ios, Android, Windows phone, whatever) to allow for system control.

OctaneBlood > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 15:15

I have an older car and it has a radio/cassette player. While I have a cassette adapter, I listen to the radio 98% of the time. I love the radio, grew up on it, and live in an area with great stations. I have no use for anything else.

Glucklich21- master of the cones > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 15:17

I think Mini and BMW have a good setup. My iPhone's integration works perfectly. You can update the system via a flash drive. The system gains features through the connected app on my phone and is updated frequently. This also allows the porting of apps onto the system that it didn't come with or wasn't 100% functional. Everything that you can do physically connecting the phone to the car one can do the same via the bluetooth connection.

http://s3.bimmerfile.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/upl…

Daniel Fleck > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 15:21

Yeah, my pipe dream is that cars will be like computers and I can buy the body, engine, transmission, wheels, tires, brakes, exhaust, suspension, seats, radio, speakers, etc all separately and bolt them together myself.

Shad0wguy > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 15:22

Not to mention people with Windows Phones or Blackberry who get left out all together.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > StevenG
08/20/2014 at 15:27

I did say Intel, or A7/8-series 64-bit processor , which is a higher-end ARM architecture SOC.

I said that, because a good operating system, or a platform that supports various operating systems, and industry standard hardware connectivity, needs an industry standard processor architecture to run on, or otherwise the OS will be as obscure as the alternate processor architecture, and embedded systems tend not to be user-friendly for Operating System support or modular OS use.

A head unit that is just a mobile device mirror then means that you ALWAYS have to have your mobile device, and it ALWAYS has to be in full operation when in the car, to have any infotainment systems.

And the effect is not far off having a simple embedded head unit box that is an RF (terrestrial or Satellite) tuner, and an aux-in source (audio and display, why not?) switcher for a separate LCD display, which I ALSO suggested as an option on basic cars... and modular in place of a more sophisticated CPU... so you can have your simple system. I didn't disregard that option.

But if you want to be able to have Navigation, or other premium features, even if you happen to not have the cell-phone in your car, or prefer to have a simple cell phone rather than a smartphone, you have to have a CPU in the vehicle that is not dependent on a mobile device that might not be present.

I just don't want that CPU to be a proprietary embedded system anymore... an industry-standard compatible swappable CPU box with standardized input and output formats would work well, and offer aftermarket versatility.

Have you noticed that aftermarket car stereo systems are nearly starved to death, and there are barely any vendors anymore? Because cars have built-in dashboards, and non-serviceable infotainment systems, that are each proprietary, and not serviceable... the hardware should be standard-compliant, and serviceable, even if the OEM software package is customized for the car manufacturer. There is no reason for an OEM planned-obsolescence Navigation system to cost 2000$+ as an option upgrade, when a Garmin GPS costs 10% of that, or less. But the answer is not just to depend solely on mobile devices. That is just one option of what should be a somewhat modular system.

I am all for options and choices... as long as they aren't ridiculous options (slow embedded systems with proprietary and buggy operating software by companies that are not tech-oriented companies), or overly-dependent systems that require an optional mobile device for heavy lifting that the mobile devices never designed to support.

Cooperating with a smart phone, great. Dependent on one, not so much.

StevenG > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/20/2014 at 15:38

x86 is too wasteful and power hungry. The newest chips are better but have powerVR graphics. If you want to talk about planned obsolescence look at PowerVR.

Replacing the OS is never user friendly. If you can handle that, you can handle building an embedded distro.

I like mirroring simply because it is possibly something they might do. Your idea is a non-starter simply because it means a software upgrade can now replace an options package. The OEMs will never allow that.

MikaelVroom > PS9
08/20/2014 at 15:56

Thank you. It was painful to read a bunch of completely unsourced (and untrue) stuff, calling for a return to the glory days of "whenever I came of age".

n54 & s38 > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 16:13

I don't want a hard drive.

I don't need Bluetooth.

I don't want a "dock", proprietary connector or any such bullshit.

Just give me an analog, aux-in jack to connect my iPod or phone and I'm good. Keep it simple, stupid.

MetaKnight2k > Vin
08/20/2014 at 16:14

No, that's exactly what CarPlay is though. So is Android Auto, Google's complementary tech. The car has a screen, the connector, the mics, the speakers, and the phone has the app. What you seem to want is something else, but you haven't said it:

You want a standard mic/video/speaker interface that all devices can utilize, perhaps DisplayPort, without any smarts at all on the car end. The problem is that you still need a basic OS and UI to make the HW useful sans smartphone, and once you have that then you have exactly the situation where Android Auto and CarPlay act as conduits for the OS of choice.

Fortner Industries > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 16:16

Every new car audio system I've tried is basically transparent feature-wise on iOS or Android. I haven't seen one system that offers substantially better features to one ecosystem or the other. Care to enlighten me?

I will concede the proprietary touch screen interfaces have a learning curve for each manufacturer. All car audio has been more or less proprietary for eons as far as button/knob placement goes, but physical buttons are much easier to sort through than embedded software menus.

As for myself, I have a GROM audio iPod/Bluetooth adapter mated to the factory head unit on my Outback. I have an Apple Lightning adapter, which works fine with no loss of functionality, but I usually connect via Bluetooth for both music and phone calls. In addition to the ipod connection and BT, I have AM/FM, a 6-CD changer, and a 3.5mm AUX input.

Between all of those audio sources, I typically split 50/50 between BT audio and FM radio.

Old-Busted-Hotness > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 16:35

shit, meant to reply to the main article.

Old-Busted-Hotness > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 16:36

This may be hard for you younglings to believe, but not everybody has or wants a smart phone.

mattdistro > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 16:36

And I just sitting here with my Windows Phone.

Mailbox Cancer > Old-Busted-Hotness
08/20/2014 at 16:37

Gramps, I put you in the ground about seven years ago. Why do you have to jump out and start using that damn Compaq again as a ghost?

The Old Man from Scene 24 > For Sweden
08/20/2014 at 16:46

Not only does my car have Bluetooth, it also had a USB port, so I can hook-up my ancient (by tech standards anyway) Sony MP3 player and listen to as much Nickelback as I can stand.

jeff4066 > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 16:47

I like my .mp3 player, no denying it. But I spent 3 hours a day in traffic for 15 years. I really don't care for that other junk.

No1451 > Mailbox Cancer
08/20/2014 at 17:03

I have plenty of very old devices and I have never once seen this message. This sounds to me like the manufactures doing a shitty job of following the spec, or could be the result of them using a draft spec.

When this debate comes up my answer is always, why not do both? Bluetooth and aux, just like my current car has in it.

The cigarette lighter should just die though, a horrible painful death because it fucking sucks.

RazorGP > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 17:06

The only way to make sure a system lasts 10 years now a days is have it totally modular and removable. Need a new connector in the dash? well pull the head unit out and swap that portion out. This would need a universal connection system in itself.

I am just waiting for a dashboard to have a hidden compartment behind the face plate to stash my phone when driving. Have it have a USB for charging/connection and ether a backup of Bluetooth or an aux jack to cover audio connections.

No clue what the future will hold. Probably the next big advance is gonna be wireless charging built into phones using the near field tech. After that it will probably be a wave of "sealed phones" as batteries get better and Bluetooth connections get more efficient and smaller. I would wager after that they make phone cases that use "power felt" to charge the phone using heat differences between its 2 surfaces.

After that grapevine phones will be nearly indestructible (bis weaker then carbon fiber) and since the material for the case can double as a superior battery you won't have the weight or size of that in the mix anymore. Toss in OLED screens and their flexibility and superior day and night time visibility, and you have a good solid near-future phone.

If you reach 20 years there will probably be no phone and the computers we have will be in out clothes or self and not need a connection system. Just and interface.

No1451 > McMike
08/20/2014 at 17:07

This isn't a problem of the concept, simply an example of how shitty execution leads to a poor user experience.

You have a solution already that's better than a shitty CD changer, it's called playlists. If you're still using an iPod smartlists are amazing and can make your music listening much better.

I'm Abe Froman > 404usernotfound
08/20/2014 at 17:08

Picked up a 2015 GTI last Friday. The dealer had to look through several cars to replace the iPhone 4 adapter that it came with. This car wasn't even alive when the iPhone 4 was out!

No1451 > n54 & s38
08/20/2014 at 17:09

Why is an aux jack better than bluetooth? Quality aside it's set and forget(excluding poorly executed software in your HU). When I get into my car it automatically scans for and connects to the last device that was on the bluetooth, I don't even have to take my phone from my pocket, I just hit a button and it starts up my music.

Can't get much simpler than that

No1451 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/20/2014 at 17:11

Include the things that don't suck, eliminate CDs and outdated bullshit.

All it needs is: bluetooth, usb, aux-in. Pretty simple

n54 & s38 > No1451
08/20/2014 at 17:13

Because it's simpler I guess. Also because I can plug in my 8 year old iPod Nano. Also sound quality. Hell, I could plug in a Walkman from the 80's if I wanted to.